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Try this out: shoot at cargo containers when standing still.

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Tar om	Posted - 2004.08.01 21:08:00 - [1] Edited by: Tar om on 01/08/2004 21:15:17 Edited by: Tar om on 01/08/2004 21:12:42 I parked my Tempest 31km from a Giant Secure and fired Phased Plasma at it until I ran out, then used EMP. I didn't miss once when stationary but I did get a "barely scratches" about 1 in 5 shots. I don't think that there should have been anything but excellent hits. I then did orbit/current range. The results were shocking. Out of 30 shots I got 29 straight misses. Bear in mind that a giant secure has a signature radius of 220 (Tempest 340, Mammoth 200, Rupture 130, Probe 41). This would suggest to me that not only can a frigate circle a 1400 using Tempest with impunity - but so can a Mammoth even at 31km as long as it keeps its transverse above ~165m/s. Did CCP really intend that industrials would be immune to large turrets out as far as 30km? EDIT: I have motion prediction 5 and had an F-12 tracking mod (1.22% tracking boost) fitted and active. -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net http://www.serenitymovie.com
Tar om	Posted - 2004.08.01 21:08:00 - [2] Edited by: Tar om on 01/08/2004 21:15:17 Edited by: Tar om on 01/08/2004 21:12:42 I parked my Tempest 31km from a Giant Secure and fired Phased Plasma at it until I ran out, then used EMP. I didn't miss once when stationary but I did get a "barely scratches" about 1 in 5 shots. I don't think that there should have been anything but excellent hits. I then did orbit/current range. The results were shocking. Out of 30 shots I got 29 straight misses. Bear in mind that a giant secure has a signature radius of 220 (Tempest 340, Mammoth 200, Rupture 130, Probe 41). This would suggest to me that not only can a frigate circle a 1400 using Tempest with impunity - but so can a Mammoth even at 31km as long as it keeps its transverse above ~165m/s. Did CCP really intend that industrials would be immune to large turrets out as far as 30km? EDIT: I have motion prediction 5 and had an F-12 tracking mod (1.22% tracking boost) fitted and active. -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net http://www.serenitymovie.com
Tar om	Posted - 2004.08.02 01:03:00 - [3] Originally by: Ithildin Just a quick note: Optimal range is the furthest you can be from a target before RANGE starts affecting your hits. Being within optimal range doesn't affect your hit chance, there only movement and signature radius affect your hit chance. (So in other words, using Iron or Anti-matter charges in a 425mm Railgun doesn't affect chance to hit if target is 15km from you, only damage and capacitor use) You're right, but the problem is that with the 50% reduction in falloff the 1400mm no longer tracks well enough within optimal to get decent hits. You either lose on tracking, or on ramge - at least with the higher damage ammo. The only way you can get decent hits with eg. phased plasma is to reduce transverse to as close to zero as you can get it. This is fine with NPCs but almost impossible with PvP unless your opponent is really dumb. As I said, a switched on indy pilot can fly round the shells from a 1400 out to 30km. OK, he can't dodge cruise or torps, but it goes to show how utterly borked the 1400 is now. -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net http://www.serenitymovie.com
Tar om	Posted - 2004.08.02 01:03:00 - [4] Originally by: Ithildin Just a quick note: Optimal range is the furthest you can be from a target before RANGE starts affecting your hits. Being within optimal range doesn't affect your hit chance, there only movement and signature radius affect your hit chance. (So in other words, using Iron or Anti-matter charges in a 425mm Railgun doesn't affect chance to hit if target is 15km from you, only damage and capacitor use) You're right, but the problem is that with the 50% reduction in falloff the 1400mm no longer tracks well enough within optimal to get decent hits. You either lose on tracking, or on ramge - at least with the higher damage ammo. The only way you can get decent hits with eg. phased plasma is to reduce transverse to as close to zero as you can get it. This is fine with NPCs but almost impossible with PvP unless your opponent is really dumb. As I said, a switched on indy pilot can fly round the shells from a 1400 out to 30km. OK, he can't dodge cruise or torps, but it goes to show how utterly borked the 1400 is now. -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net http://www.serenitymovie.com
Tar om	Posted - 2004.08.02 01:12:00 - [5] @ Cutter John. as much as I hate RL comparisons, a present day 155mm artillery piece can hit a football pitch at 27km (further with base-bleed rounds) and thats with gravity and atmospheric effects to contend with. I don't see why a 1400mm would be less accurate in space. A can is a big target compared with the size of the round. Even today, mass produced military assault rifles can achieve accuracy of 2 minutes of arc (from a bench). I would expect BS equipment to have a little more care and money spent on it. -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net http://www.serenitymovie.com
Tar om	Posted - 2004.08.02 01:12:00 - [6] @ Cutter John. as much as I hate RL comparisons, a present day 155mm artillery piece can hit a football pitch at 27km (further with base-bleed rounds) and thats with gravity and atmospheric effects to contend with. I don't see why a 1400mm would be less accurate in space. A can is a big target compared with the size of the round. Even today, mass produced military assault rifles can achieve accuracy of 2 minutes of arc (from a bench). I would expect BS equipment to have a little more care and money spent on it. -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net http://www.serenitymovie.com
Tar om	Posted - 2004.08.02 09:42:00 - [7] Cutter, fair enough. But the accuracy attained by 1400mm is poor. In preventing large turrets hitting frigates, CCP have gone way overboard with projectiles. I could understand why 1400s had the worst tracking back when they had the best range and DoT but that just isn't the case anymore. (imo) -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net http://www.serenitymovie.com
Tar om	Posted - 2004.08.02 09:42:00 - [8] Cutter, fair enough. But the accuracy attained by 1400mm is poor. In preventing large turrets hitting frigates, CCP have gone way overboard with projectiles. I could understand why 1400s had the worst tracking back when they had the best range and DoT but that just isn't the case anymore. (imo) -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net http://www.serenitymovie.com

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